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phantomflower42 · 5 years ago

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Warriors OCs Relationships: My Take, ThunderClan Edition

Let’s face the facts: creating good Warriors OCs in general can be a nightmare. The Warriors series by Erin Hunter is about four (later five) groups of feral cats called Clans that live in the wild. They are frequently in competition with one another, but share much of the same culture and traditions.

Part of what makes Warriors OCs a nightmare is that they have a shorter lifespan than humans do. Feral cats only live around two to five years on average. That number can be bumped up for Clan cats because they have medicine cats to treat their injuries and illnesses, but only a couple of cats have reached thirteen years old or above.

The books span a long time period with an Allegiances listing the cats of each Clan in every book. This equals hundreds of Warriors characters in total. There are many long family trees. The family trees have become tangled with several relatives mating with each other. It’s one of the downsides of the Clan cats being forbidden from mating outside their Clan.

This guide goes to Lost Stars, the first book of the seventh series of Warriors novels. This mostly deals with children and descendants. However, if the parents or siblings of a certain character are not known, I will address that as well. How family members of each line interact in canon will be noted.

I will keep things simple by listing one main cat per lineage. Sections will include a cat’s parents, siblings, children, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, and cousins if their family tree goes far enough. I am excluding cats from the prequel Super Editions and novellas; they will be found under a related character’s name from the main books if they are listed at all.

The exception will be for characters that were named in the main books, but received screen time in side stories later, like Rosetail, her brother Thistleclaw, and Mapleshade. Characters will be split by Clan.

Some characters are covered under multiple sections. Second and onward mentions of a certain character’s family relationships will redirect to where they were first covered.

Any information about Warriors family trees comes from the Warriors Wiki.

(Warning: With the massive amount of characters to cover, this next section will be very long!)

ThunderClan

Bluefur/star: Bluefur/star and her family have had it hard. Her sister died as a young mother, her mother was killed just a few days after she was apprenticed, her father was neglectful of her and her sister, she had to give up her kits so she could become the ThunderClan leader, one of her kits died on their way to their new home, and she suffered from months of cognitive decline before she gave her life to save ThunderClan from a pack of dogs. It’s a miracle she has any descendants at this rate.

Any cats coming directly from Bluefur/star’s line will have to come from her daughter Mistyfoot/star’s son Reedwhisker. Mosskit died on the way to RiverClan, Stonefur does not seem to have had a mate or kits before his death, and Reedwhisker’s littermates died at young ages. Maybe Stonefur’s love life or lack there of could be explored in stories along with his mate’s reaction to the TigerClan mess. Reedwhisker seems like he might not mind romance so long as it’s a fellow RIverClan cat.

Bluefur/star could also have indirect descendants through her nephew Whitestorm. His daughter Sorreltail went on to have six kits; three of them survived long enough to have children of their own. Sorreltail’s grandson Fernsong had kits with Ivypool later on.

Bluefur/star and her sister Snowfur were close-knit save for some arguments about Thistleclaw. Their mother Moonflower was a kind and devoted mother until her death. Stormtail was a poor parent that barely gave his daughters attention. He started romancing Dappletail before Moonflower died! Bluefur/star was so bonded to Whitestorm that he was one of the few cats she trusted in her last days.

Her relationship with her children is more complicated. She loves them, but Mistyfoot/star and Stonefur hated her at first when they found out the truth. Bluefur/star harbors guilt for Mosskit’s death, though the latter does not hold her at fault for it.

Mistyfoot/star and Stonefur were very close. Mistyfoot/star grieved heavily when he was killed. She felt deep pain when having to bury her kits Perchkit, Primrosepaw, and Pikepaw. Her surviving kit Reedwhisker is shown to have a good relationship with her when he shows up in the books. Mistyfoot/star even picked him as her deputy.

Whitestorm is only mentioned alongside his mate Willowpelt a few times. They patrolled together near the end of Into the Wild. He looked upon her proudly after she announced her pregnancy in Forest of Secrets. That is the extent of their shown relationship.

Whitestorm’s relationships with his kits are unfortunately not shown much on screen. The only exception is him informing Fireheart/star that Sorreltail had woken up after Darkstripe poisoned her with deathberries. Sootfur, Sorreltail, and Rainwhisker are shown to be close. The latter two did not take it well when Sootfur died in the badger attack in Twilight.

Sorreltail appears to be a good mother throughout the books. She supports her kits during stressful situations. She mourned when Honeyfern died, and is mentioned as missing her son Molepaw (who died as a young apprentice). Sorreltail in fact died because she had gone back to comfort Lilyheart and Seedpaw after the Great Battle was over with.

Cinderheart, Honeyfern, and Poppyfrost appear to have good relationships with each other. Their brother Molepaw doesn’t have enough page time to judge how he got along with them before his death. Lilyheart and Seedpaw were close before Seedpaw’s death, but they do not interact with their surviving older siblings. That’s odd as Poppyfrost was in the nursery at the time of their birth.

Cinderheart’s relationships with her kits are not shown. Poppyfrost is loving but stern towards Cherryfall and Molewhisker. Cherryfall and Molewhisker spend a lot of time together. Lilyheart does not interact with her kits much, but does appear to be a great foster mother to Twigbranch. Larksong, Leafshade, and Honeyfur are close-knit as apprentices. They don’t spend as much time with each other after being made warriors. The three of them did not react when their father Snowbush died.

It might be difficult, but a Bluefur/star descendant is not impossible. Give it a try.

Redtail: This guy had the misfortune of getting murdered by Tigerclaw/star just before Fireheart/star’s arrival to ThunderClan. He has one kit with Brindleface: Sandstorm. It’s odd that Sandstorm has no full siblings with how kits usually come in litters.

Sandstorm gave him two granddaughters, Leafpool and Squirrelflight. Leafpool had Jayfeather, Lionblaze, and Hollyleaf. Lionblaze has six kits of his own with Cinderheart. Squirrelflight kitted Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit later.

Sparkpelt had two kits named Finchkit and Flamekit; their brother Flickerkit was stillborn. Their father is Larksong. He died during Squirrelflight’s Hope shortly after Flickerkit from an illness.

Lionblaze is a good choice for fathering an OC as he seems interested in doing so. Sparkpelt is an option too. Jayfeather and Alderheart are not good father material because of being medicine cats, although the concept of a male medicine cat in forbidden love would be great to explore. Hollyleaf, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit are out except for AU scenarios with their deaths.

Redtail has several indirect descendants. His older sister Leopardfoot bore Tigerstar and his dead sisters Mistkit and Nightkit. This means Brambleclaw/star, Tawnypelt, Hawkfrost, and any kits they have had are relatives of Redtail. The cat that murdered him was his nephew. See how confusing the family trees get?

That’s not the worst of it. His older brother Patchpelt mated once with their sister Willowpelt, resulting in Graystripe. Graystripe’s kits Feathertail, Stormfur, Blossomfall, Bumblestripe, and Briarlight along with Stormfur’s kits Lark, Pine, Feather, and Breeze and Blossomfall’s kits Eaglewing, Plumstone, Shellfur, and Stemleaf belong to this lineage. Patchpelt had produced Longtail beforehand with Robinwing. Neither Longtail or Graystripe are mentioned as having littermates. Single kitten litters are uncommon. I wonder what happened...

Willowpelt had more kits than Graystripe. She mated with three toms in her lifetime: Tawnyspots (who was supposed to have been retired when she was an apprentice from illness and died of said illness shortly afterwards; what happened there?), Patchpelt, and Whitestorm. Her other kits are Darkstripe, Sootfur, Rainwhisker, and Sorreltail. Sorreltail lived to have six kits; three of them lived long enough to have children of their own. Darkstripe, Sootfur, and Rainwhisker died before siring any kits. It’s a pity with Sootfur and Rainwhisker as they did not receive a lot of screen time.

Redtail thankfully had a life free of family drama before his murder from what is shown in Bluestar’s Prophecy. His mother Swiftbreeze cared for her children, and his father Adderfang was a devoted parent that visited the nursery whenever he could. He got along with his littermates okay. His relationship with his older siblings is questionable, however. Leopardfoot and Patchpelt don’t interact with their younger siblings at all, not even to visit their mother after she was done kitting. Redtail is not seen interacting with Sandstorm either.

Sandstorm loves her kits deeply. She reminded Firestar to be gentler with Squirrelflight during Midnight as acting stern with her only encouraged her poor behavior. She was distraught during Squirrelflight’s visit to the Sundrownplace and Leafpool’s capture by Twolegs. She takes a firm stand when needed, like in Twilight; in that book, she reminded Squirrelflight that her problems shouldn’t get in the way of her duties. Sandstorm was very worried when Squirrelflight was severely injured in Eclipse.

Squirrelflight and Leafpool have such a close bond that they literally feel what the other is feeling. Squirrelflight agreed to act as the foster mother of Leafpool’s kits after some hesitation, an action that eventually endangered her relationship with Brambleclaw/star. Leafpool carried heavy reservations about hiding the ‘Fire and Tiger’ prophecy from her sister.

Lionblaze, Jayfeather, and Hollyleaf are close-knit. They argue a lot with one another because of certain issues like Lionblaze meeting up with Heathertail or Hollyleaf’s faked death, but they remained bonded all the same. Their father Crowfeather has little if any relationship with them. Their bonds with Squirrelflight and Leafpool became strained after they found out the latter was their mother, but the trio’s hostility disbursed after the Great Battle.

Lionblaze’s kits are mostly minor characters. They are not shown or mentioned together much. Snaptooth and Flywhisker train together in The Raging Storm, but that’s about it. The only exception is Fernsong. He acts as a loving mate towards Ivypool. He offered to move into the nursery to care for their kits. Ivypool returns his affection.

Having a descendant of Redtail is definitely possible. His family is one of the more prolific ones in the series.

Sparrowpelt/Halftail: Much of Halftail’s origins is a mystery. It is not known who his parents or siblings were. He became mates with One-eye. They had two children: Mousefur and Runningwind. That’s where his lineage stops.

Mousefur seemed opposed to having a mate or kits during her lifetime. The closest things she had to a mate were her friendships with Longtail and Purdy. She was killed during the Dark Forest battle.

Bluestar once stated that Runningwind did not have the right temperament for mentoring. Mentoring and parenting involve taking care of and supervising young cats. Runningwind would therefore not be great father material. Tigerclaw/star killed him during Rising Storm.

So, grandchildren of Halftail seem to be a no-go. His parents, siblings, and older relatives could be expanded on in a fanfiction based in the past, however.

White-eye/One-eye: The oldest cat of ThunderClan has a more detailed family than her mate. Her mother Harepounce was a selfless cat that starved herself to death to feed her kits during a particularly bad leafbare called the Great Hunger. Harepounce’s mate Stagleap followed her soon after from starvation-induced illness.

Speckletail is One-eye’s sister. This is without counting her foster mother Rainfur, and foster siblings Tawnyspots, Dappletail, and Thrushpelt. Speckletail bore Lionheart, Goldenflower, Snowkit, and Mistlekit. Lionheart’s love life is unknown, but Goldenflower kitted Swiftpaw, Tawnypelt, and Brambleclaw/star with an unknown tom and Tigerclaw/star.

Tawnypelt had Tigerheart/star, Dawnpelt, and Flametail with Rowanclaw/star. Brambleclaw/star eventually sired Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Dandelionkit, and Juniperkit with Squirrelflight. Dawnpelt and her mate Crowfrost bore Juniperclaw, Strikestone, and Sleekwhisker. Tigerheart/star and Dovewing kitted Shadowpaw, Lightleap, and Pouncestep.

Harepounce loved her kits a lot considering she starved herself to feed them. Stagleap is not mentioned with his kits given his death early in their lives. Rainfur cared for the two sisters since she took them in without complaint after Harepounce’s death.

One-eye and Speckletail patrol together once in Bluestar’s Prophecy, and talk about Willowpelt’s nearly due litter in Rising Storm. Part of what motivates Speckletail to stay behind from the BloodClan battle in The Darkest Hour is that One-eye and Smallear would barely make it.

One-eye and Tawnyspots share a bond. They patrolled together around Sunningrocks once in Bluestar’s Prophecy and sat together during Leopardfoot’s kitting, Thrushpelt circled them during the latter. Dappletail and One-eye spent a lot of time together as elders. Dappletail complained about Tawnyspots’ frequent visits to the dirtplace in Bluestar’s Prophecy.

Any direct kin is out with Mousefur and Runningwind’s temperaments and demises. Speckletail’s line has several possibilities, though. Her daughter Goldenflower bore Brambleclaw/star and Tawnypelt. Any of their kits are therefore indirect kin of One-eye. It’s unknown whether or not Speckletail’s son Lionheart sired any kits before he died. Have fun.

Smallear: This grump does not have a detailed family. His mate was Speckletail. They had Goldenflower and Lionheart together. Making a descendant of Smallear through Goldenflower’s kits and grandchildren is a great possibility. On the other hand, this means that he mocked his own granddaughter Tawnypelt for being Tigerclaw/star’s kit in The Darkest Hour and led to her leaving ThunderClan. I know he’s a jerk, but what the heck Smallear?

He and Speckletail are only shown together on a patrol once. He questions medicine cat Goosefeather over an omen in fresh-kill after a kit-aged Lionheart calls the prey dumb, and reassures him seasons later that he was confined to camp for a good cause when Lionheart had to repair the camp wall. This means that Smallear had a positive relationship with his son if nothing else.

Smallear never interacts with his daughter Goldenflower on page. It’s a missed opportunity. It was she that mated with Tigerclaw/star and bore his kits. If Smallear heartlessly taunted Tawnypelt about having Tigerclaw/star for a father, shouldn’t he have also taken his daughter to task for mating with him in the first place?

Lionheart’s romance life is a clean slate, so maybe you could make kits of his. Other ideas include making Smallear parents and siblings in a pre-gen fic. It could be interesting.

Dappletail: Dappletail’s background is iffy. It’s shown in Goosefeather’s Curse that her mother was a cat named Rainfur and her father was the half-WindClan warrior Windflight. Her siblings were Tawnyspots and Thrushpelt. She became the foster sister of One-eye and Speckletail later after their mother Harepounce died. She seems to get along with all her family. But, we have no idea who her mate was or who her kits were.

Part of Dappletail’s history is that she had a deaf son that disappeared at three moons old. He was presumed eaten by a fox. Who sired him, and who were his siblings? How did Dappletail react to this when it first happened? The only thing confirmed is that Bluestar’s father Stormtail did not sire the kits even though he and Dappletail had a romantic relationship.

Tawnyspots was Darkstripe’s father; the latter was killed before he had any children. Thrushpelt never had any as he was into Bluefur/star, who did not return his feelings.

Windflight gave Dappletail half-siblings later in the forms of Thistleclaw, Rosetail, and Sweetpaw. Thistleclaw sired Whitestorm, who in turn had Sorreltail, Rainwhisker, and Sootfur. Sorreltail had six kits. Three of them bore children of their own.

Sweetpaw died as an apprentice, so she never had the chance to start a romance. Rosetail’s love life is not known, however.

Dappletail’s relationships with her mother, father, and siblings are not shown in detail. They are minor characters. She helped prepare Sweetpaw’s body for her vigil. Thrushpelt once took out her apprentice Goldenflower when an injury forced her to remain in camp. She also complained about Tawnyspots’ illness causing him to walk in and out of the warrior’s den all night. She was a little sad when mentioning her dead son in A Dangerous Path. That's the extent of her interaction with her family.

Go wild with Dappletail relatives. She has several holes to fill up.

Frostfur: In contrast to other characters, Frostfur’s line is very detailed. Her mother was an experienced queen named Robinwing, and her father Fuzzypelt retired soon after she and her sister Brindleface became warriors. Her parents later had Dustpelt and Ravenpaw.

It is stated when Robinwing kitted Frostfur and Brindleface that they were not her first litter. Yet, we never see these older siblings. What happened to them? Did they die, or were they just off-screen?

Frostfur bore Cinderpelt, Brackenfur, Thornclaw, and Brightheart shortly before Into The Wild. It’s not stated or hinted who fathered them. Maybe your story involves solving that mystery. She has plenty of descendants.

Brackenfur sired Sorreltail’s six kits. Their three living kits Poppyfrost, Cinderheart, and Lilyheart had children. Cinderheart’s son Larksong sired Sparkpelt’s kits. Larksong’s siblings Hollytuft and Sorrelstripe have not been seen often enough to know if they desire families or not.

Poppyfrost’s kits Molewhisker and Cherryfall are clean slates for romance, although Cherryfall had some moments with Stormcloud in Bramblestar’s Storm. Lilyheart’s kits were all just made warriors in Shattered Sky, so they need time to grow up before becoming parents.

Thornclaw became a late in life parent in Shattered Sky. His mate Blossomfall had Eaglewing, Plumstone, Shellfur, and Stemleaf. They are minor characters, but got along well enough as kits. They also share a bond with their grandfather Graystripe. It’s unknown if they want kits or not. Stemleaf is stated to like a cat, but has not mentioned a desire to raise a family

Brightheart got together with Cloudtail. She bore Whitewing, Ambermoon, Dewnose, and Snowbush. Whitewing bore Dovewing and Ivypool. Dovewing kitted a litter of three with Tigerheart/star in Tigerheart’s Shadow. Ivypool and Fernsong seem to have gotten together.

Ambermoon and Dewnose do not show signs of romance or lack there of. Snowbush sired Honeyfur, Leafshine, and Larksong with Sorreltail’s daughter Lilyheart before he died in Darkest Night. Larksong had a romance with Sparkpelt and sired her kits before dying in Squirrelflight’s Hope.

Frostfur’s sister Brindleface had two kits that died early, Sandstorm, Ferncloud, and Ashfur. Perhaps stories could take a look at Brindleface’s two young dead kits to explore what they were like, what they were named, and how they interacted with their siblings before their deaths.

Sandstorm mated with Fireheart/star, resulting in Squirrelflight and Leafpool. Leafpool gave birth to Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze. Lionblaze had six kits with Cinderheart. Squirrelflight bore Alderheart, Sparkpelt, Dandelionkit, and Juniperkit later on. Sparkpelt is a good choice, Alderheart can’t legally take a mate as a medicine cat, and the latter two are dead. Dandelionkit and Juniperkit have not even been seen in StarClan when Alderheart visits, which seems like a missed opportunity.

Ferncloud got together with Dustpelt... who is also her uncle. It seems the authors should have been more careful when making the family trees. She bore Spiderleg, Shrewpaw, Birchfall, Hollykit, Larchkit, Icecloud, and Foxleap. Only Birchfall is still alive as of this writing. He and Spiderleg were the only ones to have kits of their own.

Spiderleg sired Rosepetal and Toadstep with Daisy. Toadstep died in between The Last Hope and Bramblestar’s Storm. Rosepetal has shown signs of liking Bumblestripe. Their line is definitely a possibility.

Birchfall had Dovewing and Ivypool with Whitewing. Dovewing has three kits with Tigerheart/star as of Tigerheart’s Shadow. Ivypool became mates with Fernsong, who seems very eager to help out in the nursery. Dovewing and Ivypool’s friendship has suffered from the former’s meetings with Tigerheart/star. It’s unknown how Dovewing leaving ThunderClan has affected her relations with her parents, but the fallout may be negative.

Frostfur’s brother Dustpelt has one of the most prolific lines in the series with his mate and niece Ferncloud. Their kits are listed under Ferncloud’s subsection. Dustpelt took her death very hard. Icecloud and Foxleap’s deaths coming very soon after their mother’s demise likely added to his grief.

Last is Ravenpaw, who seems to be the least favorite sibling of the family. He was canonically shown as having a close relationship with Barley. He has never wanted a mate or kits. The Warriors series is meant for children, so they can’t show explicit LBGTQ relationships without getting into trouble. The way Ravenpaw’s relatives treated him before he left ThunderClan is questionable.

Vicky Holmes has gone on record to say that Dustpelt would do everything to deny his relation with Ravenpaw. Dustpelt was shown attacking him when he was stripping down a leaf near the end of Bluestar’s Prophecy. He accused Ravenpaw of being a WindClan spy at first during the Warriors manga A Clan in Need when Ravenpaw diverted a confrontation between a WindClan and ThunderClan patrol over a missing kit.

Brindleface is never shown interacting with Ravenpaw or Dustpelt very much. She did have a good relationship with Frostfur, however. They spent time around each other, and had their litters around the same time. That speaks louder than words.

Frostfur acted aggressively towards Ravenpaw when he strayed near the nursery after Tigerclaw/star accused him of stealing her kits during Into The Wild. While her behavior could be excused if the Warriors series was more realistic about cat behavior (that is, adult toms would not be permitted around the nursery area at all), it doesn’t click as the characters are humanized. Why did she believe Tigerclaw/star’s lie? Why didn’t she see through it and stick up for her little brother? Did she regret her actions when she found out the truth?

The only family members innocent of wrongdoing with Ravenpaw are his parents. Robinwing was said to have been very patient with him near the end of Bluestar’s Prophecy. Fuzzypelt seemed decent enough, and was an elder when he and his mate had Ravenpaw and Dustpelt. He likely died shortly after they were born.

There are many Frostfur descendants to choose from, and family drama to be had.

Fireheart/star: As fitting of the main character of the first series, his family has been elaborated on with time. His mother Nutmeg was a kittypet who had no idea of what her son was up to. His father Jake was also a kittypet; he was a lot more adventurous than his mate. Fireheart/star had several siblings, including his sister Princess. He unknowingly killed his half-brother Scourge when BloodClan threatened the forest

He and Sandstorm came together, which resulted in Squirrelflight and Leafpool’s births. Leafpool kitted Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, and Lionblaze. Lionblaze now has six kits of his own. Jayfeather is not a good mate choice with him being a medicine cat and snappish temperament, although it could come about in the right circumstance. Hollyleaf is not around for having kits except for AU stories with her death in The Last Hope.

Squirrelflight bore Sparkpelt, Alderheart, Juniperkit, and Dandelionkit as an older cat. Sparkpelt is a good option. Alderheart is not a great choice for siring kits because of him being a medicine cat. Juniperkit and Dandelionkit died young, so they are not options outside of AUs

Fireheart/star’s sister Princess gave him his nephew Cloudtail to raise. Cloudtail sired Whitewing, Ambermoon, Dewnose, and Snowbush with Brightheart. Whitewing kitted Dovewing and Ivypool with Birchfall. Dovewing had Lightleap, Shadowpaw, and Pouncestep with Tigerheart/star. Ivypool appears likely to have kits with Lionblaze’s son Fernsong soon.

Ambermoon and Dewnose do not show signs of romance or lack there of. Go wild with them. Snowbush had Larksong, Leafshine, and Honeyfur with Lilyheart before he died in Darkest Night.

Cloudtail had littermates. It would be cool to see what happened to them. Have a field day. One of them might have had kits later that the rest of Fireheart/star’s line are unaware about.

Speaking of which, why not write about Fireheart/star and Princess’ littermates? Princess mentioned once that she sometimes met up with them. How did their lives turn out after the Clans left? Did any of them leave Fireheart/star and Princess nieces and nephews?

Lastly, there is Fireheart/star’s half-brother Scourge and his siblings Ruby and Socks. Scourge did not seem like the nurturing or romantic type, so him having kits before his death seems unlikely. Ruby and Socks were forced on the streets as loners. They lived at least a few years after their brother’s death according to the fifth Erin Hunter chat. They could have found love. Ruby and Socks’ relationship with Scourge was hostile with them bullying him as a kit.

Firestar appeared to have a lot of love for his daughters, although his time interacting with them diminished before his death. He was tougher on Hollyleaf, Jayfeather, and Lionblaze; they still had a lot of respect for him. He acts more supportive of Alderheart when he is seen in StarClan. He experienced a close relationship with his sister Princess until the Clans left the forest. He has not interacted with his other littermates, Cloudtail’s siblings, or Squirrelflight’s non-medicine cat kits in the actual books, so his relationship with them is not known.

So, there are plenty of options for a Fireheart/star descendant. Have fun.

Daisy: Daisy gets a lot of flak for staying in the nursery. For all of that, she had only taken two mates (Smoky and Spiderleg) and bore five kits. Smoky sired Berrynose, Hazeltail, and Mousewhisker. Spiderleg fathered Toadstep and Rosepetal.

Berrynose had Cherryfall and Molewhisker with Poppyfrost. Neither of them have shown signs of romantic preferences outside of some moments Cherryfall had with Stormcloud in Bramblestar’s Storm. Cherryfall and Molewhisker could have kits if the circumstances are right.

Mousewhisker has not had enough time on page to indicate if he wants a family or not. He has become a very minor character in recent books. He is another option.

Hazeltail and Toadstep are not around for romance or kits outside of AUs. They both died between The Last Hope and Bramblestar’s Storm.

Rosepetal has shown signs of being attracted to Bumblestripe. She’s a good choice for a Daisy descendant.

Daisy is a loving if protective mother. Her children seem to get along okay. They are sometimes mentioned as taking duties together. Hazeltail is very excited when Toadstep and Rosepetal are first born. Unfortunately, they are not mentioned too often because of being minor characters. We don’t even see Daisy or her surviving kits’ reactions to Toadstep and Hazeltail’s deaths. That seems like hasty writing to me.

A Daisy descendant is a good choice.

Stormcloud: This poor cat is a former kittypet that joined ThunderClan after a flood made him lose his home. He also lost his brother Benny in the flood. He has shown chemistry with Cherryfall. so kits with her are a possibility.

None of Stormcloud’s relatives except for Benny are known. Did he have any other siblings that lived in a different house? Who were his parents? How would any of his remaining family react to his new life?

Give kin of Stormcloud a go.

Mapleshade: Before starting on Mapleshade’s section, I would like to say that how her Clan handled her forbidden relationship with Appledusk was atrocious. A leader banished three two-moon old kits with their mother, a warrior referred to the kits as ‘creatures’, said warrior watched them drown in the river without helping them, and the mother’s RiverClan mate Appledusk got off scot-free.

With that in mind, where are Mapleshade’s parents, siblings, or other kin? ThunderClan is shown to be very low in numbers in Mapleshade’s Vengeance; Mapleshade is the only queen at that time. Even if she had betrayed the first law of the warrior code, her family would have stood up for her. They could have pointed out that banishing her would mean four less ThunderClan cats later. They could have reminded Oakstar that banishing kits for their mother’s crimes was wrong and perhaps a breach of the twelfth law of the warrior code.

A direct Mapleshade descendant is out with Patchkit, Petalkit, and Larchkit’s deaths. But, maybe she did have a sibling somewhere that had kits later. This could lead into several dark story possibilities.

#warriors warriorcats ocguide ocrelationshipguide thunderclan

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staircasttext · 3 years ago

Text

Ep 18: Purrlock Holmes

Episode 18

[intro music]

LIZ: That's the price for being a cool tattoo bad guy now.

PAZ: Yeah, with my little cow.

JULIAN: Yeah, Paz's cow tattoo has made them a regular Tigerclaw.

LIZ: Yes, stealing cows is a crime.

PAZ: Tigerclaw's that guy who has like, Mom tattooed on his huge bicep. Does he have a canonical-- does he have mom problems? I don't even know.

JULIAN: Oh, I don't remember.

PAZ: I typed that into google. Martial arts supplies. You don't...

JULIAN: Oh, no. Here, I pulled up the wiki. Um, his mother was Leopardfoot, who only appears in the super editions.

PAZ: Oh, she was apparently the mate of the former leader, Pinestar.

JULIAN: Damn.

PAZ: Maybe he has daddy issues.

LIZ: Maybe he's like--

PAZ: It sounds like maybe he has daddy issues.

JULIAN: Oh damn. Goosefeather asks why the clan leader's mate had such a hard birth, saying StarClan was angry.

PAZ: Oh.

LIZ: [gasps] StarClan said this baby was evil.

JULIAN: The old medicine cat also sees evil in Tigerkit and tries to warn the clan.

LIZ: What?!

JULIAN: Assigned evil at kitten.

LIZ: Does StarClan like--

PAZ: Does he get--

LIZ: No, go ahead.

PAZ: Does he murder that medicine cat at zero days old? What happened to her?

LIZ: Oh, I bet he did. They fucking like Damian'ed this tiny baby cat.

PAZ: Is this in like a super edition? Maybe we gotta read that one.

JULIAN: Yeah, it is. It's in the Bluestar's Prophecy super edition.

LIZ: This is so funny.

JULIAN: There's also-- "during Snowfur's kitting, Bluefur brings a stick and tells Leopardfoot that it's for Snowfur to clamp her jaws on when the pains come. Leopardfoot remembers her painful kitting, wishing she also had a stick."

PAZ: Why didn't anyone bring her a stick?

JULIAN: Why didn't anyone get her a stick?

LIZ: They have a forest. They have to have them.

PAZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: There's a lot of sticks.

LIZ: You don't need a big one. They're cats.

PAZ: Aren't there sticks all around their camp?

LIZ: They're probably sleeping on some. Just like, get one. What if--

PAZ: Okay, extremely funny.

LIZ: Leopardfoot sounds just normal right now.

PAZ: Yeah, except she has a horrible evil infant.

JULIAN: She doesn't seem to really have a personality beyond mother, based on this.

PAZ: From what I'm reading about Pinestar, I think maybe Tigerclaw had some daddy issues because Pinestar apparently left to go be a kittypet.

LIZ: Oh.

PAZ: Yeah, the drama.

JULIAN: Well, shit.

LIZ: Wow.

PAZ: I don't know if it ever comes up in the main series. I don't know.

LIZ: Pinestar's got it right.

PAZ: Yeah, Pinestar did what we have been saying this whole podcast.

LIZ: He's like, fuck all of this. I'm going inside.

JULIAN: Do it. Get out.

LIZ: Also, my baby is evil. I'm out of here.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: What if this baby just had bad vibes?

PAZ: Your baby ever have such bad vibes you move? You move to another country.

JULIAN: Yeah, this whole Pinestar backstory only appears in the super editions.

PAZ: Huh.

LIZ: This is so funny.

PAZ: What? "When StarClan began urging Pinestar to kill his own son."

LIZ: What?

JULIAN: Holy shit.

PAZ: That's why he left. He was... wait, he was twins with Jake?

JULIAN: Yeah.

PAZ: The intricacies.

LIZ: Wow.

JULIAN: There's so many layers here. Wow. Wow.

LIZ: I mean, like if you look at the map that's in the book, they all kind of just live in the same neighborhood.

PAZ: I know.

LIZ: It's a very small community.

JULIAN: Tight knit.

PAZ: Wow. [laughing] Hi everyone. Welcome to Stairway to StarClan, a Warriors Cat reread pawdcast. I'm Paz.

JULIAN: I'm Julian.

LIZ: I'm Liz. Was that bonus content?

PAZ: No, that's cold open, baby.

LIZ: We gotta put some spoilers.

PAZ: I don't think Pinestar from the bonus novels is that much--

LIZ: What if people want to read the bonus novels?

PAZ: Well...

LIZ: You don't know.

PAZ: Too bad. Pinestar is described as "massive."

LIZ: Big boy.

JULIAN: Tigerclaw had to get it from somewhere.

PAZ: Yeah.

LIZ: What if Pinestar just looks like Bone Bone?

JULIAN: [yelps] Sorry about what that did to my audio.

LIZ: So Tigerclaw sees this little kittypet baby come into his home and is like, I'm going to have father issues right now.

PAZ: Yeah, apparently that's what happened.

LIZ: At this baby.

PAZ: That does seem to be the case, huh.

LIZ: That's so extremely funny.

PAZ: Oh, that's incredible. Well, we didn't read about Pinestar this week. We're still just reading Forest of Secrets. Um, what the fuck did we read? Chapter four through chapter six. Guys, there's a lot of secrets in this forest.

JULIAN: Yeah, this forest I would say is very secretive.

PAZ: Maybe there wouldn't be so much secrets if any of the cats talked to each other, but.

JULIAN: I think the cats should have a sharing circle. I know they have gatherings, and Bluestar calls them to hang out at the high rock or whatever. But I think they need more.

PAZ: Or even like an anonymous message board. They could just post things on a tree.

LIZ: They need Gossip Girl.

PAZ: [laughing] Gossip Girl.

JULIAN: Are you suggesting that the cats develop Yik Yak?

PAZ: Yes. I like Warriors Gossip Girl.

JULIAN: Warriors Gossip Girl is very good.

PAZ: I hope someone wrote that.

JULIAN: I hope someone did too.

LIZ: [typing] Warrior Cats Gossip Girl.

JULIAN: Pop on over to Warriors - Erin Hunter.

PAZ: Any hits?

JULIAN: Zero works found.

PAZ: Oh my god. Once again, we're putting out a call to action.

LIZ: There is a fan art, I think, or a regular art of someone called Ivypool from last year. But it's just captioned "xoxo, Gossip Girl."

PAZ: I think that must be a newer character. I don't remember them.

LIZ: Maybe she's the Gossip Girl.

PAZ: Or it could be an OC.

LIZ: Maybe someone's doing the thing that Warrior Cats needs, then. I support them.

PAZ: Yeah. Finally.

JULIAN: Sorry. I stumbled upon a fancast website. Someone has fancast John Boyega as Lionblaze.

PAZ: Oh my god. Stop, that's gonna make me have to like Lionblaze, who I think is so boring.

LIZ: These cats are British. I keep remembering that.

PAZ: That'd be a great VA, though. Let John Boyega voice some cats.

JULIAN: Fancasting suggestion made by totaltrashfiremammal.

PAZ: Great idea. Should we--

LIZ: What were we doing?

JULIAN: Let's--

PAZ: Wow. Distracted before we even said anything about what we read. Okay. Chapter four. Fireheart, Graystripe and Sandstorm are out hunting, and it looks like leafbare will be over soon. Fireheart sees Brackenpaw having fun with the other two and misses Cinderpaw, wishing she was still his apprentice. He catches a rabbit, and Bluestar says to bring it to Yellowfang, who is training Cinderpaw in medicine. He remembers Tigerclaw injuring Cinderpaw and how dangerous he is to the clan.

The next day, Fireheart and Graystripe sneak into RiverClan territory to talk to Silverstream to ask about Redtail and Oakheart. Silverstream says she wasn't there when he died, but brings her friend Mistyfoot, a gray cat who seems familiar to Fireheart, and who fought in the battle where Oakheart died. Mistyfoot confirms Ravenpaw's story about Oakheart dying in a rockfall accident and reveals that he was her father and that Stonefur is her brother. She says she can ask her mother Graypool, an elder now, to talk to him another time about what Oakheart said about Stonefur.

Chapter five. Fireheart returns to camp where everyone makes fun of him for being stinky, a disguise for smelling-- for covering up that he'd been in RiverClan. He sees Cloudkit impatiently asking Brindleface why he can't be an apprentice yet. Bluestar announces two new apprentices, Thornpaw and Brightpaw. Graystripe returns and says the meeting with Graypool is arranged for tomorrow.

The next day, Fireheart and Graystripe meet with Mistyfoot, Silverstream, and Graypool. Fireheart asks what Oakheart meant when he said no ThunderClan cat should ever harm Stonefur. Graypool asks the other cats to leave so she can speak to Fireheart alone. She reveals that she isn't Mistyfoot and Stonefur's biological mother and that Oakheart brought them to her as abandoned kits to raise. She said she didn't believe him and that she could tell back then that the kits smelled like ThunderClan.

Chapter six. Fireheart is shocked at what Graypool says, asking if Oakheart stole the kits. Graypool says Oakheart would never. She also says she raised Mistyfoot and Stonefur because she respected Oakheart and she didn't want their loyalty to be divided, and that she will rip out Fireheart's liver if he ever tells them. Graypool rules. He promises not to and is very respectful. She also says they never suspected anything, especially since they look so much like her (gray cats) which Fireheart thinks about briefly before forgetting.

Fireheart returns to camp and goes to talk to Bluestar, a gray cat, about what he's learned. He tells her about going to see Ravenpaw and the RiverClan she-cats, everything about Oakheart dying on accident, and how it means Tigerclaw was lying about killing him, and how dangerous Tigerclaw is to the clan. Bluestar seems thoughtful, but when Fireheart tells her that he learned about Mistyfoot and Stonefur, she gets angry and immediately dismisses him. She says to never bring it up again, that maybe Tigerclaw was right to doubt his loyalty, and Fireheart is bewildered, wondering if he's blown his chance to convince her. And that's the end of the readings this week.

LIZ: Gray is a very common color. It's kind of like--

PAZ: That's true. It is.

LIZ: It's the most neutral of the colors.

JULIAN: It could happen to anybody.

PAZ: They're not like fucking white cats.

LIZ: Or an orange cat.

PAZ: No, there's another orange. One of the new apprentices was orange, apparently.

LIZ: Yeah, orange and white. Seems to be more common than... I don't know. Get it together, ThunderClan.

PAZ: Well, that really just shows they're just cat racist because there are other orange and white cats in the clan.

JULIAN: I love Graypool.

LIZ: She's great.

JULIAN: Just got to get that right out there.

PAZ: Yeah, she's so good.

JULIAN: Cranky old grandma. I love her.

PAZ: I love all the old she-cats in this book. Yellowfang, now Graypool.

LIZ: They're all just like, oooh, my arthritis. You kids these days.

PAZ: She even says something like that.

JULIAN: Oh yeah, Fireheart brings her a mouse and she's like, well, I'm glad you're respectful at least, with this undertone of like, everyone else sucks.

PAZ: Yeah. Fireheart's bringing a gift for being allowed to stay over at her house.

LIZ: Fireheart brings her edible arrangements to Grandma. He's a nice young man. This is why he's the favorite of all the grandmas.

JULIAN: He is a nice young man.

PAZ: He is a good nice young man.

LIZ: Except for the President.

PAZ: Yeah, we'll get to Bluestar, but man.

LIZ: Listen, he's got like, what, three now? So it's okay.

PAZ: Um, but should we go back to the beginning of chapter four?

JULIAN: Yeah, this little hunting trip is cute. Brackenpaw starts defending Graystripe. And it's like he does not deserve you.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Right. It made me really sad. I'm like, Graystripe has abandoned you like 80% of your apprenticeship.

LIZ: And that's such a long time when you're a cat. Brackenpaw's probably like 16 now in cat years.

JULIAN: That's a nice young man.

PAZ: That is a nice young man, and he deserves a better teacher.

LIZ: Maybe Sandstorm will be his teacher.

PAZ: Yeah, I don't know if Gray-- Graypelt-- fuck. Graystripe.

LIZ: Lots of gray cats.

PAZ: I forgot his name. I wanted to banish him from my mind. I don't even know if Graystripe is training him still, even.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's like is Brackenpaw like-- does he have the skills he needs to become a warrior? Is he gonna pass the cat SATs?

PAZ: I don't know.

LIZ: What's that thing you do when you have like the self guided study thing, but it's in high school?

JULIAN: An independent study?

LIZ: You know what I mean? Yeah, maybe he just has that, but it's like his whole day.

PAZ: What he has is like five different teachers, none of whom are Graystripe.

JULIAN: It takes a village. Ugh.

PAZ: Also very important, in this chapter in the scene after the hunting, there's a description of Yellowfang loafing.

LIZ: Yes.

JULIAN: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes!

LIZ: Oh my god.

PAZ: It was like one line, but I was like, oh my god. Picturing it.

LIZ: She's just like, little old lady loaf.

PAZ: She'd look like a cloud with all that fur.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: Oh!

LIZ: Yellowfang, another gray cat.

JULIAN: I want to scrumble her so bad.

PAZ: She would bite your hand off.

JULIAN: I know. It would be worth it.

LIZ: She'd be real slow, though. She's a little old lady.

JULIAN: Yeah, maybe she doesn't have all her teeth. Maybe I'd be fine.

PAZ: Oh my god. Yeah, there's another description of Graypool. I think that's other old lady RiverClan cat, where it mentioned like all her broken teeth. Her little old missing lady teeth.

LIZ: Aw.

JULIAN: [wails]

LIZ: Maybe Yellowfang is, despite her name, she's like Chloe. She's just like, no teeth.

JULIAN: Bluestar is gonna have to rename her to Nofang.

PAZ: No.

LIZ: No! Bluestar's so bad at this.

JULIAN: God.

PAZ: I think Bluestar does a real bad renaming soon. Maybe in the next book. I think it's coming up. So yeah, Bluestar does suck at this.

JULIAN: Yeah, she has some-- pretty few jobs. She has a lot of jobs. But she doesn't do great at the one she has.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: No. Really does not. Yeah, I mean, but in the medicine den is like Cinderpaw and Yellowfang. And they have very cute interactions, but Fireheart's man pain.

JULIAN: Oh my god.

PAZ: And like guilt.

LIZ: God.

PAZ: It's never ending. I'm like, Can you just shut up?

JULIAN: It's like every other sentence, just like, oh, what she could have had. But tragedy took it from us.

LIZ: Oh my God.

PAZ: It's really frustrating because like, that's just like, what he's been like, if he hadn't been thinking that, Cinderpaw seems like she's having a fine time. But he's still hung up on that.

LIZ: His man pain's really typical. Because it's like, I wish I could spend more time with basically my daughter. Time to go.

JULIAN: Yeah. It's like, oh, if only there were something I could do to make this poor child's life easier. Bye! I thought about how sad it made me, and that's the same as doing something.

LIZ: I wish I had a nice relationship with my child. Gotta go.

JULIAN: Cinderpaw and Brackenpaw should talk.

PAZ: Yeah, they got some deadbeat teachers in differing ways here.

LIZ: Maybe they do. And we just don't see it because we're only seeing it from Fireheart's point of view, and he's never there.

PAZ: That's true.

JULIAN: God. Yeah, I mean, sort of on that note, I think, Liz, you pointed out that, like, the narration uses the word cripple to talk about her a lot.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Which is like, yikes. But I think in a lot of ways that kind of fits with the like, the tone that Fireheart has of this sort of like paternalistic, like, oh, poor Cinderpaw. Poor, helpless Cinderpaw. Like I think just sort of doing a quick look into the history of the word, like a lot of disabled people have either reclaimed it or consider it a slur. But also, like, its history is very much one of like, being tied to like, really paternalistic, like, oh, we gotta save the poor children. And like not viewing people, disabled people as like, adults with agency, or people who will become adults with agency.

LIZ: It's kind of sad and interesting that this is also like, it's the narrative's point of view, right? This is what the reader is supposed to think as well.

JULIAN: Yeah, definitely.

PAZ: Because, like, if this had been on purpose, and would be like, investigating and critiqued at some point, it'd be very, like, accurate, sort of depiction of the way people treat disabled people. But it's not.

LIZ: No.

JULIAN: It is an accurate depiction of the ways that-- [laughter]

PAZ: Because they're just not thinking about it. It's just like the societal, like, views of the author just coming through.

JULIAN: Yeah. I'm glad that Cinderpaw has Yellowfang at least. Like their relationship is really good.

LIZ: Yeah, they're really sweet.

PAZ: Yellowfang would be such a cool teacher to have.

LIZ: She's one, around. She sticks up for Cinderpaw a lot, too, which is nice. And I know a lot is um, comparatively low bar compared to everyone else. I'm glad to see it.

JULIAN: It also seems like she's like, hey, like, you know, you're like a very energetic young cat. Let's find you something to do.

PAZ: Yeah, like, she assigns tasks to Cinderpaw. She's not like Fireheart, where it's like, no, Cinderpaw, she can't do anything now. That scene does make Fireheart remember, though, that Tigerclaw's evil. He has to keep being reminded.

LIZ: I know it's like--

JULIAN: I think he should get some post it notes.

PAZ: That's what I'm saying.

LIZ: The way it's written, it seems like-- it feels like he forgets and it just comes back now and then in a way that's like, very accurately cat like. I know it's like-- cause it's for the reader, right? It's like, oh, this happened like two books ago, but.

PAZ: I'll give him points. He takes the last step. He does a lot of investigative work this set of chapters.

JULIAN: He does. He's doing his little detective routine.

PAZ: Yeah, he's a regular Sherlock Holmes here.

LIZ: Don't you mean Purrlock Holmes?

JULIAN: Oh.

LIZ: He's a regular gumpaw.

PAZ: Aw.

JULIAN: Aw. I do have to critique his plan when they're like, oh, we have to go into RiverClan territory and hide out for Silverstream.

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Both of us.

PAZ: The note--

JULIAN: Like, you couldn'ta just met her at Fourtrees and asked her there?

PAZ: The note I wrote in my notes was "Fireheart back to being dumb here. Proximity to Graystripe."

[laughter]

JULIAN: Oh.

PAZ: Yeah, I guess in fiction the reason for that was like, he's like, [gruffly] I can't wait. But I think he could have waited maybe a little.

LIZ: Is that what he sounds like in your head?

PAZ: I don't know. Yeah, maybe he's like-- I feel like he'd have that like shonen boy protag like voice conviction.

JULIAN: I do-- the description of Silverstream is so funny.

LIZ: It is.

PAZ: Spottedleaf, move aside.

LIZ: Can we get a read on her description? It's really good.

JULIAN: Yeah. "Fireheart watched the RiverClan she-cat stepping delicately across the ice toward the bank. She was certainly beautiful, he realized, with a finely shaped head, and thick, sleek fur. No wonder Graystripe was captivated by her." Finely-shaped head?!

PAZ: The authors are trying so hard on how to write cat attractiveness.

JULIAN: What makes a cat sexy? Is it the head shape? I think it's the head shape. I mean, like, I would rather it be a finely shaped head than like her curvy butt or whatever.

LIZ: I know how that would happen, though. It would be like her finely shaped rump or something.

JULIAN: Her like sinuous flanks.

LIZ: Ew.

PAZ: Yeah, it's funny, but it's way better than what could be.

LIZ: Do you think they're gonna hit like their stride later, and it's just gonna be oh, she had beautiful fur and luminous eyes, and then you can just stop.

PAZ: Probably. There's a lot of cat romance in these books. They got to get practice. Shout outs to RiverClan for having an island that they live on?

LIZ: Yeah, that's really good.

PAZ: That's so defensible.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's good as hell.

PAZ: Nobody's invading them.

JULIAN: They're the only ones who can swim.

PAZ: Meanwhile, WindClan's just sleeping in a hollow in the hills. No wonder they've been attacked twice.

LIZ: Someone please save these cats.

PAZ: I'm gonna go build those cats a house.

JULIAN: Also shout out to Mistyfoot for being sort of the beleaguered best friend.

PAZ: Oh my god. Yeah, I did love that vibe.

LIZ: Isn't she like a mom? Did I read that wrong?

PAZ: No, Mistyfoot, I think is like, kind of maybe like a little older than Silverstream, I think?

LIZ: Maybe I'm just confused by all the mom stuff happening. I could have sworn she's like, I have to get back to my kits.

PAZ: She's the one who says Graypool was-- oh, maybe. I don't know. Maybe she did.

JULIAN: I think she might have mentioned kits. Hold up. I don't see that. But I might be missing it.

PAZ: I'm looking.

LIZ: It's not super important.

PAZ: Yeah, she does mention I've left my kits.

LIZ: Oh, okay, good.

PAZ: I think her and Silverstream are like peers.

LIZ: Yeah, I just mentioned it because it's very funny to have your best friend, who is the president's daughter, just be like okay, I've gotta go meet up with my boyfriend, who is from the enemy clan, and also his friend. And we're gonna talk about all this secret shit. And it's just like, I'm living my normal life.

PAZ: She's in her own YA novel.

LIZ: She is down, though. She's like, okay, I'll bring my mom to talk to you enemy cats.

PAZ: Yeah, she's surprisingly chill. You know, Julian, I can see why you might have liked RiverClan as a kid. There's a lot of cool she-cats in RiverClan. I'll give them that.

JULIAN: I think it was also just like RiverClan was my clan for my RP OC, so it's a lot of sort of reflected affection.

LIZ: Like aesthetically, also, it's a very cool one. And also I'll give it to you if not Graystripe.

PAZ: I can't remember who the cat in the New Prophecy for RiverClan was.

LIZ: Fishtail.

PAZ: No, hold on, I'm looking.

LIZ: Swimfoot.

JULIAN: Salmonbelly.

PAZ: Warriors wiki, where are you?

LIZ: Salmonbelly was born with a very pink tummy.

PAZ: Can I-- who the fuck was it?

JULIAN: Stormfur?

PAZ: Maybe.

JULIAN: Never mind.

PAZ: Feathertail?

LIZ: Butterflystroke.

PAZ: Okay, Feathertail was from-- I don't remember this book. Who are you people?

JULIAN: Okay, Feathertail is a RiverClan.

PAZ: They're fucking point of view characters? I don't remember these people. Wow.

LIZ: That makes sense. You said they do like to have more cats per book later on or something.

PAZ: Yeah, yeah, the following series, I think everything since the first series has like rotating POV characters.

LIZ: Sounds fun.

PAZ: Wow, I can't believe I just don't remember this.

JULIAN: I read the whole New Prophecy and I don't remember any of this.

PAZ: I did too. It was my favorite. I remember-- I mean, okay, I remember like, obviously, like Brambleclaw, Squirrelflight, Leafpool, Crowfeather, Ashfur. What book were Stormfur and Feathertail? Apparently they didn't leave a big impression on me.

LIZ: I'm excited to get to it, just--

PAZ: Oh, I love the New Prophecy. I think it still might be my favorite out of the three series I've read.

LIZ: Is it the second one, right? So we're three books away. Is that right? Three?

PAZ: I have no idea.

LIZ: How many--

JULIAN: Yeah, cause there's six per series.

LIZ: That's an afternoon of reading.

JULIAN: Yeah, slam right through em. This is a little bit unrelated. And I don't know if we have more to talk about with this first meeting. But the image of Fireheart showing up to these kits' naming ceremonies absolutely covered in shit.

PAZ: Literally, it's very funny.

JULIAN: Reeking.

PAZ: I like that Sandstorm just teases him.

JULIAN: Yeah, it's really cute.

PAZ: They're very cute together.

JULIAN: Yeah. It's just like the image of like, you know, your shitty cousin arrives at your kindergarten graduation, like covered in feces. No one will sit near him.

LIZ: But he's very supportive. God, is he gonna take a bath?

PAZ: I guess-- I guess so.

JULIAN: How is he gonna? Is he gonna like go in the river?

PAZ: Wasn't there something in the last book where he--

JULIAN: Is he gonna have to lick his shit off himself?

PAZ: No, no, there was something in the last book where he also had to go in the river to wash off something.

JULIAN: Oh, that's right. He had-- it was mouse bile.

LIZ: Ew.

PAZ: Yeah, that was the first book so yes, they did do that.

LIZ: All right, thank god.

PAZ: Not just gonna lick that off. Yeah.

LIZ: So this advice was from Graystripe. Do you think every time he's got to take a bath he's like, ohhh, my forbidden romance requires me to roll in feces and then take a bath, two of the things that I hate as a cat.

PAZ: He's dedicated. That's my nice comment about Graystripe for the day.

LIZ: Is it true love until you-- I can't finish the sentence.

PAZ: Yeah, there's a naming ceremony. I couldn't tell if they were really big babies because they were like Cinderpaw and Brackenfur's siblings. But I was like, are they from the same litter? Why are they so big?

JULIAN: Yeah, I don't know.

PAZ: Bluestar's always going on about how we need more warriors and then she's not making people warriors. She's not making people apprentices.

JULIAN: Just a sec.

PAZ: Okay.

JULIAN: Sorry.

PAZ: What was it?

JULIAN: It was mango pomelo cheese tea.

LIZ: Ooh.

PAZ: Ooh. Damn.

JULIAN: It is very good.

PAZ: That is important to try.

LIZ: Damn, I want something-- I want a fancy drink.

JULIAN: Naming ceremony. Bluestar's inability to move her kits along the path at any sort of rate.

PAZ: I'm really starting to have questions about Bluestar's ability to lead.

LIZ: What happened to the girlboss of our dreams?

PAZ: Well, it's just Graypool now.

JULIAN: Although I guess--

LIZ: But she's retired.

JULIAN: They can't become apprentices until they're six months old. How often can cats have litters?

LIZ: This is so crucial.

JULIAN: Oh my god. "Once pregnant, a cat's gestation period is roughly two months, making it possible for her to birth as many as five litters a year."

PAZ: Oh my gosh.

LIZ: Ahh!

PAZ: Holy shit.

JULIAN: So it could be just another litter.

PAZ: Yeah, I guess so. Nevermind. Yeah, cause they could just be like two months younger.

JULIAN: God, that's horrifying.

PAZ: What a nightmare.

LIZ: That's scary. I am looking at six month old kittens for just like reference. This is a pretty big cat. Gonna show you a little baby. Or I will if I can copy paste anything correctly. Yeah.

PAZ: That's a full cat there.

JULIAN: Oh yeah. That's a little boy.

LIZ: Yeah. So that means Cloudkit's even bigger than this.

PAZ: No, no, no, Cloudkit's younger.

LIZ: Right? I mean, like, yeah, he's younger, but he says he's like, bigger, right?

PAZ: Does he?

JULIAN: He does, but I get the sense that we're not supposed to take that seriously.

LIZ: It's all fluff. He poofs himself up real big.

PAZ: Aw.

JULIAN: Oh, buddy.

LIZ: Or he's just like a big baby. Which is also good to me.

PAZ: That'd be great. After that naming ceremony though is the Graypool scene where, very funny. The scene where like Silverstream and Mistyfoot were walking her out on her little grandma walk.

JULIAN: I love her. Also the scandal here that she reveals.

PAZ: Oh, yes.

JULIAN: Absolutely incredible.

PAZ: Very big gasp moment.

LIZ: She's pretty casual about it. She's just like, yeah, I'll tell you. Everyone else leave.

PAZ: It's because Fireheart brought her a mouse. He's a nice young boy.

LIZ: You seem like an upstanding gentleman. You're my grandson now.

JULIAN: It's the one mouse per secret rule.

LIZ: If you give her like 10 mice, two per day, you get up to her, what, 10 hearts event? Where she just legally adopts you as her grandchild.

PAZ: Oh, perfect.

JULIAN: Perfect.

PAZ: Yeah, she really did-- before she said like, okay, everyone else leave, she looked at Fireheart for a really long time. I think she was perceiving his protagonist halo.

JULIAN: She can see it.

PAZ: And she's like, oh, okay, everyone else get out.

LIZ: She's like, that's a really orange cat.

JULIAN: God, this bit about when Fireheart is like, oh, did he steal the cats? Oakheat is not a kit stealer!

LIZ: God.

PAZ: He's not in Megaboneclan. Don't even imply it. I wonder if that's where they got the idea from?

JULIAN: Maybe.

PAZ: Fascinating.

JULIAN: I feel like there's like a lot of a lot of kit stealing throughout the books. There was some in--

PAZ: Oh, you're right. There was.

JULIAN: Earlier, too.

PAZ: You're right. I just keep forgetting about that.

JULIAN: I mean, it was like, all things considered, fairly minor as far as like, plot repercussions.

LIZ: They seem just like normal cats now. They're not like-- they didn't grow up evil. They didn't grow up, like, very sad. They just kind of--

PAZ: Yeah, Graypool's whole thing is like, don't tell them because I don't want them to feel conflicted suddenly. And I think Fireheart had like a good character moment where he's like, oh, I like totally understand how that feels and I don't think they should have to deal with that.

LIZ: I did like--

JULIAN: I mean, yeah. I think that she should tell them they're adopted, but.

PAZ: Well, considering that like--

JULIAN: But considering the circumstances.

PAZ: Everyone's at war constantly and hates each other, maybe, maybe not.

LIZ: And they've got some sort of weird blood purity thing sometimes.

JULIAN: God.

LIZ: I think they personally seem well adjusted enough and have a nice mom that they'd be like, oh, you're still our mom. Thank you. Sad about all of that we're from an enemy clan that seems to be doing some real shit right now, but.

PAZ: Yeah, but if other RiverClan cats found out.

JULIAN: Yeah, that would be bad.

PAZ: That might be bad. After that Graypool scene is the Bluestar scene, I think.

JULIAN: Yeah. Fireheart learns from his earlier mistakes and is like, I'm gonna tell Bluestar right away so I don't forget.

PAZ: Good. Good start.

JULIAN: I don't get distracted. Which, you know, good. And then it goes real bad.

LIZ: Well, it's at least it's not his fault this time. He did the best he could.

PAZ: Yeah, he has a very solid case laid out. Like with multiple witnesses and sources. But Bluestar's like, own personal drama makes her a real like, dumb ass about this.

JULIAN: Yeah, she completely shuts down. And Fireheart is blaming himself, which I don't think he should.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Yeah. Yeah, like the moment he mentions the RiverClan cats, that's when she shuts him down.

LIZ: Maybe she is just threatened by these coincidentally, like gray cats. She's like, oh, another gray cat? Two other gray cats? What if they want my presidency? No other reasons.

JULIAN: That who is that other dog comic, but.

PAZ: Yeah, poor Fireheart He's trying so hard to stop everyone from getting murdered-- specifically Bluestar from getting murdered. Like she's top of the murder list.

JULIAN: I know.

PAZ: And she is just thwarting his every move.

LIZ: She's got big about to like get fridged energy.

PAZ: It's like, then perish. If you're not gonna listen to him, then perish.

LIZ: Fireheart is constantly just like throwing himself in front of her like, get down Miss President.

PAZ: She stands up.

JULIAN: I described Bluestar as a girl boss earlier, and Han was like, oh, does she like also gatekeep and gaslight? And yes, she does.

PAZ: Oh, she sure does.

LIZ: She does. Mm-hmm.

PAZ: She's in prime form this chapter. Yeah, okay, here's a-- I'll just read to give you that flavor. "Bluestar let out a long breath. All the interest she had shown before had vanished, leaving her expression cold and remote. 'Go,' she ordered. 'Find yourself something useful to do, something that befits a warrior and never, never mention this to me again. Do you understand?'"

LIZ: Oh shit.

PAZ: It's like, ma'am.

JULIAN: Sorry, his ending little thing is like, "thistles and thorns, he thought."

PAZ: Yeah, it's very very cute.

JULIAN: Which is really cute.

LIZ: That's so cute little. They're little guys.

JULIAN: Yeah, their little cat figures of speech.

PAZ: There was another one in this set of chapters that was something like, darker than a crow's wing or something like that. Just good stuff.

LIZ: I think that's the whole chapter then, right?

PAZ: Yeah. It is. It was a pretty juicy set of chapters. Lots of just-- but it's all kind of around like the same stuff. Just that RiverClan investigation.

JULIAN: That kit parentage.

LIZ: I like the way the conflict is like continuing. It feels very frustrating to read. But it's like, yeah, it would be frustrating. This is good escalation, I guess. It's like you have all of the info that you were looking for for your little murder mystery investigation. But like, now there's this different stuff happening.

PAZ: Yeah, I'm just really appreciating how well these books are written like, for kids novels, because I'm still rereading Uglies. And like, it's a good novel, and I'm enjoying it, but it feels like more clumsily handled, like the way plot beats are set up, like the way all the Chekhov's guns items are put in place and come back. But the Warriors is just like-- it's very well plotted and paced when stuff comes up.

LIZ: I think it definitely benefits from having a team to do it, right.

PAZ: Yeah, for sure. And I think they're all like experienced authors. I mean, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty-- at least I think Vicki Holmes is the one. I'm pretty sure she was like writing before. And then they tapped her to write the series.

JULIAN: I think Cherith Baldry is the one who actually wrote this one. Or like the main writer for this one. But she'd also written like, a bunch of different fantasy series before this.

PAZ: Yeah, exactly.

JULIAN: And I think also, just like, something I really like about these books is there's a really good sense of cat politics. Like, there's a sense that this is a larger world and there's a lot of forces at play, some of which we see and like, some of which we don't, so that when stuff kind of comes in or out, you know, it feels like there's stuff happening off screen that is affecting the plot that we don't necessarily see, in like a good way.

PAZ: Yeah. Like I mean, like we were mentioning how Mistyfoot felt like the beleaguered best friend character. Like she was in so few scenes, but like the sense of that really came across well. There really is a sense that like, there is other stuff going on with like, the other clans.

LIZ: There's this part, um, when Graystripe and Silverstream are like okay, we're gonna fuck off now. Go have fun with your meeting. And Fireheart doesn't even get to talk much, but Mistyfoot is like, don't worry, I won't eat you.

PAZ: I am excited to see what happens in this book.

JULIAN: Me too. See some more secrets.

LIZ: Will any of these secrets come out? Will more secrets be created? Who knows? This is my tagline for the book.

PAZ: What do you think the next secret will be, Liz?

LIZ: Fireheart is Tigerclaw's dad. He's a time traveler.

JULIAN: Oh shit.

LIZ: But he's got amnesia.

PAZ: Oh shit. It's like time traveling Dumbledore.

LIZ: He got reset to baby age. That's how they don't know.

PAZ: My God.

JULIAN: The power of StarClan. As the prophecies foretold.

PAZ: They said, you didn't kill your kit the first time. Go do it again.

LIZ: Oh shit.

JULIAN: Yeet you right on back.

PAZ: Wow. That rules.

LIZ: Wow.

PAZ: Well, I can't wait to see that happen. I guess unless anyone has anything else to add, that's it for the book discussion segment.

JULIAN: Yeah, I don't have anything else to add.

[meow]

PAZ: All right. So, God. I don't know what episode it was. It was around when we were discussing the Barnes and Noble RP community that we also found that like within Goodreads groups there's a thriving Warriors community. So I was clicking around some of those threads. Lots of good stuff in there. Also a lot of groups that are just like two people, and I hope that went well for them.

JULIAN: I support them.

LIZ: That just feels like the natural habitat, you know?

PAZ: Yeah, it's definitely like someone and their friend just made a Goodreads group together. Good for them.

LIZ: So good.

PAZ: But I found a great thread that is titled "What's in a name? Warrior names, do's and don'ts."

JULIAN: This is-- I just want to let our audience know, this is divided into a prologue, a second prologue, chapter before the chapter, chapter one, chapter two, chapters one through five.

LIZ: I love this.

PAZ: This is serious stuff.

JULIAN: Mod Peyton here is very clear about what needs to be done and what does not need to be done.

PAZ: Do you want to read the intro?

JULIAN: Sure. "Prologue, understanding Warriors. It's rather disheartening to see role players creating outrageous names. Carrotkit, Blueberryfang, Sneezeheart and Scrabblepaw, to name some randomly selected examples."

LIZ: Those are so good.

JULIAN: "No matter how original they seem to be." What does Peyton have against good names?

PAZ: I feel like this is specific beef. I don't know if he's randomly selected.

JULIAN: This is 100% specific beef.

LIZ: Blueberryfang. Someone out there, ugh.

PAZ: I love Sneezeheart.

LIZ: Who's the medicine cat from ShadowClan again?

PAZ: Runningnose?

JULIAN: Oh, Runningnose?

LIZ: Yeah.

PAZ: Right?

LIZ: That's the same.

JULIAN: "There's a very specific reason why Warrior Cats are given the names they have, and it's much more obvious than people make it out to be. For one, we'll start early on in warrior lore. To be a warrior, a cat must be generous and must understand self sacrifice because the foundation of the warrior code is, essentially, the clan comes first. If that fact is disregarded, it could be said that the cat is no longer a warrior or doesn't understand the ways of warriorhood." And that's why you never have any evil Warrior Cats.

PAZ: None.

JULIAN: "This is the purpose of apprenticeship, to teach the warrior in training not only to hunt and fight, but to serve the clan as a true warrior." Well, fuck Brackenpaw then. "It isn't a good name that makes a warrior, but the character of the cat. However, with a good name, every other cat will know just how well they behave or how highly revered they are in the clan. This is why Deathfang or Boneclaw is unacceptable."

LIZ: Boneclaw.

PAZ: Why?

JULIAN: "This disregards not only the warrior code but reality, or rather, Warrior Cat reality."

PAZ: Reality?!

LIZ: Boneclaw.

JULIAN: "We'll discuss this soon enough in the following chapters."

PAZ: You can't say Deathfang and Boneclaw are unacceptable when there's fucking Brokenstar and Tigerclaw.

JULIAN: Brokenstar and Crookedstar and Nightstar.

LIZ: Boneclaw's so good. I'm so mad that no one is legally allowed to use it.

PAZ: If you use that, Peyton will fucking track you down, so don't even think about it.

LIZ: Come at me, Peyton. Here's my Goodreads at.

JULIAN: "A warrior is an honorable, respectable cat, and one of the best ways to represent that reputation is a good name. Below are a few examples, before I show you just how it works." Oh. "Sandstorm. Sandkit undoubtedly describes a very pale kitten, an obvious name to give a pale ginger cat at birth."

PAZ: She's not ginger! I refuse.

JULIAN: "As Sandpaw grew up, she developed a very harsh and spiteful personality." She did not!

PAZ: I don't think so.

JULIAN: "Which we can see is illustrated in her warrior name, Sandstorm. Sand being rough illustrates your personality in being both unfriendly and rude."

PAZ: What?

JULIAN: "So therefore Sandstorm is a pale ginger tabby, with a habit of being very snappy and blunt." Peyton, I have some beef!

PAZ: I think there's a little misogyny happening here.

JULIAN: Have you heard of tsundere?

PAZ: That too. Oh my god. She is not.

JULIAN: She's not rude.

PAZ: I mean, being blunt is not the same as being rude.

JULIAN: She's also very nice to a lot of cats.

PAZ: Yeah, I mean, she's unfriendly and rude like in the first book. That's about it, and they were all like teens, so. Ugh.

JULIAN: God. "Fireheart. Firepaw, as Bluestar stated, was named for his fiery coat that held the light of a blazing fire when the sun was upon it. His suffix, Bluestar also explained somewhat and not in depth, represents his caring personality. He cared for every cat, every clan, and made it obvious, even if it broke the rules of being a warrior. He wasn't afraid to support and take care of others, which meant he had heart-- a very brave and considerate heart. Fireheart, therefore, represents a dark ginger tom with a passionate personality."

PAZ: Thank you, Peyton.

JULIAN: "But there are other options in naming a warrior. For example, Goldenflower. This name describes two things: a cat, and a flower. The flower we know is yellow and the cat we know is golden and very motherly. The double meaning is a step ahead of the former names."

PAZ: Wow.

JULIAN: "Mentioning the cat and an object that represents them for what they look like and how they behave."

PAZ: The layers. The layers to warrior names.

LIZ: Yep.

JULIAN: "This isn't a very common way to name warriors because it is a very delicate process."

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: "But it can sometimes be the most highly revered and best way to consider. This is very similar to the names above, but don't get them confused. The former names describe the cat's appearance and personality separately and do not denote a second image found in nature. Sandstorm could be considered iffy, but it denotes her personality as sandstorms don't occur in heavily forested or grassy areas like where the cats live."

PAZ: Oh my god. It just goes on and on about like this.

JULIAN: Yep. Oh, they do mention Brokentail/Brokenstar, with their own explanations.

PAZ: Oh my god, hold on. I gotta read the legendary cats section. The second paragraph takes you out. "Everyone's heard of the legendary cat clans, LeopardClan, TigerClan, and LionClan, and cats do get prefixes from these particular cats. No, these clans did not and do not exist where the current four clans live, and are merely myths that the cats can tell. They're inspirational stories, sort of like nursery rhymes for kids today. We can safely assume that because leopards, tigers, and lions are real cats, and that because domestic cats such as ferals have lineage in them." I don't think they do. I don't think that's how the evolution happened.

JULIAN: That's not how genes work.

PAZ: That's not how it works.

LIZ: What? No.

PAZ: "That the Clans would understand what they were. It's completely acceptable to name your cat after one of the clans because they're not sacred or spiritual. Think of them as naming your little boy John, Abraham, or Matthew, if you catch my drift. They're good names for a strong representation of ancestry and appearance and work really well for traditional canon cats."

JULIAN: Tigerclaw has become Catholic this time.

PAZ: He sure fucking has.

LIZ: Can we please look at the don'ts in chapter four?

PAZ: Okay, let me scroll all the way down. Oh wait.

JULIAN: Hold up.

LIZ: Wait, wait, wait.

JULIAN: We got a cat genetics chapter.

PAZ: Wait, before that, before that. "Naming generators. Do not trust these with anything, whether it's a generator on the official Warriors site or the one on Warriors Wish."

LIZ: Ooh.

JULIAN: "Do not use these. The combinations are very poor, and needless to say, they do not follow rules of traditionalism. Names from generators are also less personal and meaningful, and it is not suggested that anyone use them." That is all in bold and underlined.

LIZ: Wow. And italics.

PAZ: Yes. Okay, continue. I think genetics is next.

JULIAN: Genetics is next. Peyton has some issues with the canon cat genetics. "Black cats cannot have blue eyes unless there's some amount of white on them. The genetics for creating the light eye gene is not found in solid black cats, and therefore is not plausible. This means that, realistically speaking, Crowfeather is not a plausible character, given his appearance."

PAZ: Crowfeather's been canceled.

LIZ: Wow.

JULIAN: "Tabbies can have blue eyes. It is not common, but genetics allow for it if the cat is of a certain breed. Hawkfrost is plausible. Violet-eyed cats are extremely rare, even more rare than tortie toms. This does not make playing a violet-eyed cat in the wild a common feat or something that should really be considered, but it is possible."

LIZ: Is it possible?

JULIAN: Finally, in bold.

PAZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: "Tortie toms are rare and cannot live in the wild. They have very weak immune systems, are sterile, and without human/Twoleg care and medications cannot survive."

PAZ: Holy shit.

JULIAN: Okay.

LIZ: Wow, rude.

JULIAN: Cat magic? Fine. Violet-eyed cat? Fuck you.

LIZ: Tortoiseshell toms? Get the fuck out of here.

PAZ: Banned from the forum. Banned.

LIZ: Are purple eyes real? Even if it's just a shade of blue? I don't think so.

PAZ: I don't think so. I've certainly--

LIZ: I'm only seeing photoshopped cats.

PAZ: They got that Alexandria's Genesis or whatever.

LIZ: Purple eyes, white hair, does not poop.

JULIAN: Yeah, animalpath.org says, "you may have heard rumors about cats with purple eyes, but there is no known evidence of cats with purple eyes, although lighting conditions can make a blue-eyed cat's eyes appear purplish or blue violet."

LIZ: Peyton!

JULIAN: "Rare albino cats can have lilac-colored eyes, with the lilac being a soft pale shade of purple."

LIZ: What? Okay, Peyton, all right. I've got to see this. I'm only getting photoshops.

JULIAN: Yeah, I've looked this up.

LIZ: The second result I'm getting is from Warrior Cats. Warrior Cat Pelt and Eye Colors wiki.

JULIAN: This is the Photoshop.

PAZ: Oh my god. Sorry. I'm down to chapter three, the do's. "There are small things to keep in mind as far as grammar is concerned. Names are compound words. So that means names like One-eye will be hyphenated to separate the repeated letters so that it reads One dash eye. The Erins don't always do this, but that doesn't mean it's okay not to." Jesus.

LIZ: God. That's a lot of like, conjunctions.

PAZ: Does somebody want to read the don'ts?

LIZ: Yes.

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: It's really long. Oh, it's so long.

JULIAN: We can split it up. We don't have to read the whole thing. Or we can have people tag in and out.

LIZ: Okay, I can start. "Chapter four, the don't. What don't you do in a name? There are tons of things you don't do in a name. We'll start small and work our way up. Well, not necessarily. There's no starting small in the don't section. These are basic but unwritten rules. Some of them the Erins have said. Some of them have been observed, but all apply. One, the moon, sun, and stars are sacred to the cats. These objects or variations of the objects are not to be used in names. The moon, sun, and stars are sacred. It's why star is only allowed at the end of the leaders' names. This is a rule I'll repeat over and over if I have to get it across. Examples of unacceptable names: Moonfur, Sunclaw, Starkit. This also applies to names that expand on the above: Lunarfur, Solarclaw, Eclipseheart, Crescentpaw."

JULIAN: Damn. Sorry to rain on Peyton's parade, but there is in fact a canonical Moonflower, so.

PAZ: I'm starting to doubt Peyton's authority on the subject.

LIZ: Peyton, debate me.

JULIAN: Meet me in Fourtrees. Debate me in the marketplace of ideas.

LIZ: "Eclipse especially is a no go. An eclipse not only happens rarely but when it does happen, the result that it has on the warriors are catastrophic. So no sensible queen would name her kit after an event that leaves all shaking in fear." I think it'd be really metal. You should do that, actually.

PAZ: Yeah, like what if you're goth, and you're like, I want my evil baby.

LIZ: Boneeclipse!

JULIAN: What do you think Peyton's stance on cats with wings is?

PAZ: Kill on sight. No mercy. Mosey down.

LIZ: Who wants to-- we can go through this by numbers, I guess.

PAZ: Sure. "Two. Due to the fact that dreams are held in high regard and are sacred in the ways of warriors, no variation on the word dream is to be used. This applies to the word itself and synonyms or similar words: wish, hope, muse, desire, etc. Examples of unacceptable names: Morningdream, Dreamkit, Wishinggaze, Musemind."

JULIAN: Sorry, we got a Wishkit. Oh shit. Wishkit was one of Yellowfang's kits who died.

LIZ: No.

PAZ: Oh no. I guess they died because it was an unacceptable name.

LIZ: StarClan saw the fucking birth certificate and was like fuck, no. No way. This baby? No.

PAZ: Struck down with thunder. Do you want to read the next one, Julian?

JULIAN: Yeah. "Spiritual connotations, both in the human world and cat world, are not to be used. Words such as spirit, soul, and angel denote higher levels of being, an honor not worthy of warriors."

PAZ: What?

LIZ: What?!

JULIAN: "This is only allowed for leaders through the use of star, as a suffix, to represent their connection with StarClan. Vicky has stated that spirit, soul, and other similar words would not make it primarily because of their human connotations with certain religions, which means spirit and soul are Twoleg words that warrior cats would not know about, despite contrary belief. Examples of unacceptable names."

PAZ: Holy shit, the third one in this list.

JULIAN: "Spiritsong, Angelwing, Demonsythe, and Soulflight."

LIZ: These are metal. You should use them.

PAZ: I love Demonsythe so much.

JULIAN: Please name your cat Demonsythe. Also the fact that Demonsythe-- scythe is not spelled with a C here.

PAZ: It is not.

JULIAN: This is definitely an OC. Like this is someone's cat. Someone made a Demonsythe, and Peyton said, fuck off.

LIZ: Demonsythe, if you're out there, come on our podcast. This whole-- are they saying that cats can't reach higher levels of being like humans?

PAZ: I think like they're saying is that only when you're dead. Cause warriors are the live cats, I guess.

LIZ: Okay, I thought this was gonna be like the weird thing where it's like, humans get heaven, and then like animals get like a lower heaven or something.

PAZ: Oh no.

LIZ: Do Christians do that? I wouldn't know.

PAZ: I don't know, maybe it is. Do you wanna read the next one, Liz?

LIZ: Oh, okay. I need to recover myself after Demonsythe. "Four, words that tend to be seen as disrespectful in their literal sense are not to be used. Cats are literal in their naming and do not use hidden messages. This means--"

JULIAN: You just said that Goldenflower was a metaphor.

LIZ: "This means that names that include words such as hollow, any variation of the word fall, burning, searing, singed, shattered, twisted, broken."

PAZ: Broken?!

LIZ: Hey. Listen.

PAZ: Hello?

LIZ: Hey, wait. Debate me! I've got some good-- I've got the wiki open, Peyton.

PAZ: You need to revisit the text, Peyton. You need to read-- you need to pick up one of these books and read it.

LIZ: Okay, "or any word related to the aforementioned is not acceptable, especially in a name that is given at birth."

PAZ: Guess what?

LIZ: "Certain words such as torn, broken, or otherwise are acceptable as renames but most are not. Examples of unacceptable names in either situation: Brokenheart, Twistedface--"

PAZ: That's just what Crooked--

LIZ: "Hollowsoul, Searingkit," and then just Fallenbird.

PAZ: Oh my god. This is killing me.

LIZ: Okay. "Examples of acceptable names for a rename. Cats that get renamed must have been in a life threatening situations." I've read that wrong. "Cats that get renames must have been in life-threatening situations, otherwise the names become meaningless. Every cat tears a claw every now and then, so Tornclaw isn't an acceptable name change." Let him do it. Let Tornclaw do it. Fuck you. "Most cats that get renames are then sent to be an elder because any situation that would then require a name change hinders the cat from--" I think they get to be elders when they're old.

PAZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Yeah, I think fucking-- the WindClan, Deadfoot, would have some words for you, Peyton. Deadfoot would like to debate you in the marketplace of ideas.

LIZ: And then just like, One-eye, Brokenleg, Tornfur. Oh my god. And then there-- Peyton addresses the Erins. Okay, "this also means that yes, Erins, Birchfall is not really a respectable name."

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: The name denotes a fallen birch, which for one does not represent the cat for anything, appearance, personality, event even that would have had something to do with the cat. It's a completely random and purposeless name of a very bad sign/event in a forest."

PAZ: Oh my god.

LIZ: "You must consider the meaning of your name when applying such harsh disrespectful words. They are absolutely not tolerated."

JULIAN: What if I want my cat to have an angsty backstory? I'm also like, has Peyton been in the woods? Trees fall all the time.

LIZ: If a tree falls in the woods and no one's around to hear it, will Peyton still debate them?

PAZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: "Number five. Jewels and semi precious stones are not acceptable in names. Silver and gold are used because the terms for certain colorations and markings-- technical terms-- are actually silver and gold. However, there are no markings classified as jade, ruby, onyx, or otherwise. Secondly, the possibility of cats unearthing such rare jewels that aren't even found in the British Isles is an impossibility. Most stones must be mined for and are found under certain conditions unavailable to the cats." Isn't there a mine like on the map?

PAZ: There is. They go there for their spirit ceremony.

JULIAN: That's where the Moonpool is.

LIZ: I don't have an issue with Peyton's length. These are-- this is a lot of books. There's a lot of lore. I disagree fundamentally with what Peyton is laying down.

PAZ: Oh my god. Wow. "Number six."

LIZ: Excuse you. Wow.

PAZ: "Remember that cats are not sophisticated. If the kit is red at birth, they are not crimson, scarlet, or blood. They are red or ginger. Cats don't have dictionaries and thesauri." How old do you think Peyton is?

JULIAN: Oh God, either 25 or 14.

PAZ: Yeah, there's no in between.

JULIAN: No in between.

LIZ: Peyton, if you're 25, all of this is justified. Like all of what we're saying is justified. If you're 14, please forgive us. Keep doing you.

JULIAN: But maybe think about how other people might like to roleplay and how it might be different from how you like to do it.

LIZ: Peyton, if you're 14, we're just three clowns.

JULIAN: We're three clowns. And I was this clown. When I was a role player, like I did not set out a whole lore bible for how to name cats. But I was very like, very high minded about what I thought a proper name was.

PAZ: There's more. There's more though.

JULIAN: There is more. Who wants to do seven?

LIZ: Should I do seven?

PAZ: Sure.

JULIAN: Sure.

LIZ: Is it my turn? Did we-- sorry, just want to check. Did we read the unacceptable unsophisticated or sophisticated names?

PAZ: Oh no, I didn't.

LIZ: Just Burgundypelt. I like that a lot.

JULIAN: It's very good. I also am a big fan of Cobaltpaw.

LIZ: Yeah. Okay, "number seven. All Twoleg seasons are unknown to cats. Therefore, an Autumnspirit is not acceptable, nor is a Winterpelt. Seasons are referred to differently. This also works for things such as ocean, seas, comets, and other things not commonly referred to in the books. Examples of unacceptable names: Summerheart, Oceanbreeze, Comettail." Aw, that's a good name.

JULIAN: I think Comettail slaps.

PAZ: Yeah, I can picture it. That's a cat with a really bright red tail.

LIZ: Yeah, it can be like-- that feels like a prophecy cat.

JULIAN: "Number eight, animals found outside of the British Isles are not to be referred to. It's hard to keep track of all the animals that don't live in Britain."

PAZ: Is it?

LIZ: I mean, okay, comparatively, animals that live in Britain versus animals that don't.

PAZ: That's true.

LIZ: One of those numbers is bigger than the other. Yes.

PAZ: That's true.

JULIAN: Yeah, no.

LIZ: I do agree.

JULIAN: It is hard to keep track of all the animals that don't live in Britain. "But if you don't know for sure whether or not they can be found on the island, Wikipedia it. That is the simplest answer, and you won't look like a fool. Here are some common animals that usually get placed in names that are not native or found on Britain: coyote, cardinal, and bear. This also goes for plant species such as the orchid, olive, and ebony tree. Please do your research on a species before placing it in a name."

PAZ: Last, we've finally reached the end of this chapter. "Nine, everyone knows that Twoleg objects are not acceptable names. That's obvious. However, that sometimes doesn't seem to apply or rather, it gets overlooked. Many words don't even seem to have human origins of connotations, but they do and are not acceptable. Many common words used in names, such as mask and dance, are human words to describe things in nature and are not natural occurrences. People will reference the mask of a raccoon or the dance of courting birds, but these words are not recognized by cats. This also goes for obvious materials, such as ink, sword, dagger, and various metals."

JULIAN: Does-- all words are human words.

PAZ: None of these cats know any words. Why does it--

LIZ: They know one word, and it's meow. Can I propose an exercise?

PAZ: Yes.

JULIAN: Yeah.

LIZ: Can we make a completely unacceptable name?

PAZ: Yes, please.

JULIAN: Yes.

LIZ: What's your completely unacceptable name? Let's take a minute.

PAZ: Okay. Well, let's look back up at the don'ts.

JULIAN: Oh, here's some questions at the bottom.

PAZ: Okay, we'll go anti to all these questions.

JULIAN: Yeah, well, it's just do I have an acceptable prefix, which I think we need to-- we got to go through our rules and find.

PAZ: Let's make the name first and then come back to these questions. Okay, so no celestial objects. No dreaming.

JULIAN: What about an asteroid? Because that's both a celestial object and like a rare or semi precious stone.

PAZ: That's pretty good. Is there a prettier name, like asteroid term?

JULIAN: Meteor?

LIZ: Space debris.

PAZ: You know what, what if we take the name of a planet or moon. That'll also cover the no spiritual--

JULIAN: Perfect.

PAZ: --references. Let's look at some of these Jupiter moons.

JULIAN: I'm a fan of Titan.

PAZ: Oh, that could be a real big cat.

JULIAN: Big boy.

LIZ: Titan... fall.

[laughter]

PAZ: We can't do that. We'll get sued.

LIZ: Just bleep it out.

JULIAN: Titansoul.

LIZ: Is that a thing? That also feels like a thing.

PAZ: It feels like it should be a thing.

LIZ: Yes, it is a thing.

JULIAN: Fuck.

LIZ: Fuck.

PAZ: This is hard.

LIZ: It's a video game.

PAZ: Naming warriors is hard.

JULIAN: Titan...summer.

LIZ: Hot titan summer. Titan... bone.

JULIAN: Megatitanboneclan.

LIZ: Titan... dream.

PAZ: What if we do like Hades or something for the goth factor?

JULIAN: Ooh yeah.

LIZ: Hades... fur.

JULIAN: Hadesdream.

PAZ: Hadesdream?

LIZ: That's his wife before she divorced him.

JULIAN: I feel like the second part of the name is harder to like--

PAZ: Yeah, it's harder to go against.

LIZ: What if we do some word mashing? What if it's Hadesclipse.

PAZ: Oh shit.

JULIAN: [to the tune of Loona's "Eclipse"] Hadesclipes. Da na na na.

PAZ: Hadesclipse.

JULIAN: I like Hadesclipse. It breaks many rules.

PAZ: I'm really a fan of it.

JULIAN: How does it represent our cat?

PAZ: Um, they're evil.

JULIAN: Okay.

PAZ: They're evil and they live in darkness, hence the eclipse.

JULIAN: Gotcha.

LIZ: They're evil--

JULIAN: I think they have big teeth.

LIZ: But it also sounds like they started like a local competitor to Great Clips.

JULIAN: Well, that's what they have the big teeth for is to give the other cats hair cuts so they can-- they have to give all the other cats emo bangs!

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: Oh, I love that. Hadesclipse, born during an eclipse. Very dark and evil, but gives you the crispest bangs you'll ever see. The swoop? Unimaginable.

PAZ: Did we go through the questions? Should we do that?

LIZ: Yeah.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah.

PAZ: "Do I have an acceptable prefix?"

JULIAN: Nope.

LIZ: Absolutely.

PAZ: "Does it make sense to be the name given at birth?"

JULIAN: Yes.

LIZ: Yes. Because Hadesclipse's mom was a goth named Boneocean.

PAZ: Oh shit. "How does it represent my cat?"

JULIAN: Well, he's evil.

PAZ: Yeah. "Can I match it with a suffix?" Yeah. Blends perfectly.

LIZ: Rolls right off the tongue.

PAZ: "How should my suffix represent him or her?"

JULIAN: Well, his work as an amateur barber.

PAZ: "Is it best to encourage their appearance or personality?"

LIZ: Ooh, ooh, ooh. Okay, so Hadesclipse can be one of those like torties with like the half like black face and half brown.

PAZ: Oh, fuck yeah.

JULIAN: Oh, yeah.

PAZ: Wait, wait, wait. Is he a tortie tom?

JULIAN: He's a tortie tom. He's a tortie tom and he has purple eyes!

PAZ: Fuck yes. "Have I successfully described my cat?"

LIZ: 100%.

JULIAN: Yes.

PAZ: Yes. Beautiful. Perfect. New leader of Megaboneclan.

LIZ: Everyone's gonna look so good.

JULIAN: They're gonna be so stylish.

PAZ: He invents hair dye with red berries so he can give them those frosted tips.

JULIAN: He can probably dye cats black, too.

PAZ: Oh, yeah.

JULIAN: With walnuts. For that real goth look.

LIZ: His first customer is Walnutfur. This was really easy.

JULIAN: Yeah, this is really good.

PAZ: I'm so glad that Peyton made a guide for us on how to make the best names ever by telling us what we shouldn't do so we can do it. Thank you, Peyton.

LIZ: I was very antagonistic before, but like nothing but with respect for the thoroughness of this. I couldn't fuckin do this.

JULIAN: Yeah, this is a work of like--

PAZ: It's long.

JULIAN: A lot of effort went into this.

PAZ: Yeah. You know, people are very passionate about warrior names. As we know from Susanclaws of days past. Well, I think that might do it for us today.

JULIAN: Oh yeah.

PAZ: We've learned a lot. And Hadesclipse rules. So next week we will be reading probably chapter seven through 10. I'm gonna see how long it is. It might end up being chapter seven through nine. It'll be a surprise. Other than that, you can find the show @staircast on twitter.com. You can email us with questions or anecdotes, [email protected]. And do we want to announce the thing?

JULIAN: We joke a lot on the podcast about doing a Patreon. But we're actually going to do a Patreon.

PAZ: Surprise.

LIZ: Hey!

JULIAN: There's like a ton of stuff that we want to get into and it would be-- a Patreon lets us sort of like have that separate stream.

PAZ: Yeah. Like maybe we do want to read about Pinestar being told to kill his child. And the Patreon would be--

JULIAN: We so badly want to read about that.

PAZ: The Patreon would be a great place for that. I mean, there's also a lot of other Warriors fan content. Like there's a Roblox game I would love to play. Um, stuff like that.

JULIAN: There's an official tabletop game.

PAZ: Yes.

LIZ: And we have to play that.

PAZ: Yes indeed. You love Hadesclipse? Wait till we play that game. Yeah, so I think the Patreon will be a place for reading the special books, maybe the manga. There's also novellas out there, maybe doing more specific deep dives on certain things. So if any of that sounds interesting to you guys, you can go to patreon.com/staircast, where we'll be doing bi-monthly bonus content episodes. Does anyone else wanna add something?

LIZ: I think that's it.

JULIAN: Yeah. I'm very excited to get to dig more into some stuff.

PAZ: Yeah. And any support would be great. We love you. And thank you to everyone who has been listening to this podcast. It's been really fun to do and I'm glad other people are enjoying it. Yeah, that's the update for now. We will catch--

JULIAN: Oh, there's some very ominous thunder in the background, sorry.

PAZ: It's Hadesclipse.

JULIAN: Hadesclipse is here to fuck us up.

PAZ: Yeah, he has thunder powers too. We didn't mention that, but just, you know. Anyway, that'll be it for us this week. We will be back next week with more Forest of Secrets. Everyone have a great week. And until next time, may StarClan light your path. Bye.

LIZ: Bye.

JULIAN: Bye.

[outro music]

JULIAN: Oh, it's International Asteroid Day.

PAZ: It is.

LIZ: Oh my god.

JULIAN: For Hadesclipse.

LIZ: Hades...clipse.

#ep 18 #transcript #forest of secrets ep #purrlock holmes

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